Meeting Date: 8 February 2000 3:30P-6:00

Meeting Location: Adams Mark Hotel: 3rd fl. Rm. Trinity 4

The following is in accord with the Dallas Sign-In Sheet and the Official Roster dated 26 Jan’99

Samuel Sami

Michel LeCompte

Steven Memory

Gary Price

Dan Kramer

Raymond Rite

Robert Jones

Alfi Malek

Michael Ohadi

Mike Connaghan:US Army CECOM

John Chato

Roland Ares: Aresco

Brian Webb: Envirothermics

Kevin Dickens: Marlo Coil

Ming Zhang: Thermoking

Leon Tang: Outokompu Copper

David Zietlow: Bradley U.

David Honeycutt

Dennis O’Neal

Ed Ames

Charles Bemisderfer

Keith Rice

William Stewart

Ahmed Bensafi

S.A. Sherif: Univ. Fla.

Josua Meyer

Qi Wang: Thermal Components

Tony Jacobi

Bill McQuade

Ming Zhang

Gordon Struder

Paul Krause

Louay Chamra: Miss State

Bob Utter

Shea Mashburn

Christof Meurer

Jurgen Voss

Jason Yang

Amit Brar

Shaobo Jia: Heatcraft

Ram Narayanamurthy:

Seinevas Garimella

Gordon Struder:

Steve Hancock: Trane

Kwok Fung

Gren Yuill: Research (RAC)

Norman Maxwell: Handbook 02

Dennis O’Neal (TAC)

All Voting and Corresponding Members of TC 8.4

LIAISON:

Dennis O’Neal: TAC Chair

Stanley Westhoff: TAC Sec Head

Ramon Pons: Spec. Pubs.

Gerald Groff: Journal/Insights

Joseph Pietsch: Standards

Michael Beda: Program

Norm Maxwell: Handbook 02

Hugh Crother: Refrigeration

Bradley Gustafson: Handbk 00

Grenville Yuill: RAC Research

William Tinsley: TEGA

Don Colliver: Education

ASHRAE STAFF:

William Seaton: Research

Claire Ramspeck: Standards

Martin Weiland: Tech. Services 

ASHRAE

Dallas 8 February 2000

COVER SHEET FOR MINUTES

Chair: Samuel Sami

Vice Chair: Michael Ohadi

Secretary: Dan Kramer

Last meeting: Seattle 22 June 1999

Next meetings: Minneapolis, MN 24-28 June 2000

Atlanta, GA 27-31 Jan 2001

Cincinnati, OH 23-27 June 2001

Atlantic City, NJ 12-16 Jan 01

Honolulu, HI 22-28 June 2002

Membership: Mike Ohadi

Program: Samuel Sami

Research: David Zietlow

Handbook: Roland Ares

Standards: Gary Price

RP 1002: Fin Staging for Frost Control Yes

RP 1094: Heat Loads from Coil Defrosting; Phase II Yes

1100 TRP Electro-Hydrodynamic Frost Control Yes

2002 Refrigeration Forced Circulation Air-Coolers for Refrigeration R. Ares

2000 Systems and Equipment Air Cooling and Dehumidifying Coils R. Ares

2000 Systems and Equipment Air Heating Coils R. Ares

2000 Systems and Equipment Air Cooled Condensers R. Ares

Standard 20 Method of Testing for Rating Forced Circulation Remote Air Cooled Condensers: Complete: Just Published

Standard 25: Method of Testing for Rating Forced Circulation Air Coolers for Refrigeration: Approved for Public Review

Standard 33: Methods of Testing Air Cooling and Heating Coils: Awaiting 3rd public review

ASHRAE

Seattle: 22 June 1999

MINUTES of TC 8.4

Chairman Sami called the meeting to order at 3:32P.

The chair counted the voting members present and confirmed the presence of a quorum.

The Chair called on those present to introduce themselves and to sign the sign-in sheet.

THE FOLLOWING ENTRIES HAVE BEEN ORGANIZED ACCORDING TO SUBJECT AND ARE NOT NECESSARILY PRESENTED IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY OCCURRED AT THE MEETING:

SEATTLE MINUTES:

The Chair called for a motion to approve the minutes of the Chicago meeting.

Dr. Zeitlow advised of an inaccuracy in the minutes on the report of a work statement. Ray Rite requested that the Secretary send a copy of the draft minutes for his comments, as well as to the Chairman. The Secretary agreed.

Kramer/Rite moved/seconded that the minutes be approved as corrected. Unanimous.

LIAISON REPORT:

Handbook Liaison, Mr. Maxwell, advised that the material on the entire handbook CD would be updated annually, while the paper editions would be updated on the usual four year schedule.

SUB-COMMITTEE CHAIRMEN’S REPORTS

HANDBOOK: Mr. Ares advised that the handbook revisers for the Y2000 Handbook Volume "Systems and Equipment" would be as follows:

Chapter 21, Air Cooling and Dehumidifying Coils", Alfi Malek and Roland Ares;

Chapter 23, "Air Heating Coils", Gary Price and Todd Michael and

Chapter 35, Part 2, "Air-Cooled Condensers", Mon Mongia, Michel LeCompte and John Chato.

Ares will transmit to each voting member by e-mail a copy of revised chapter 41 before the Minneapolis meeting for vote at that time.

MEMBERSHIP: Chair Sami advised that he would elevate several corresponding members to voting status to replace those who had to roll off.

STANDARDS: Ares reported that Standard 20 MOT Air-Cooled Condenser had been published. And that SPC 25, MOT for Forced Circulation Cooling Coils (dry coils) had been approved for public review by the committee.

Ares further reported that the SPC 25 had been advised that ARI has changed its previous position and is now anxious to have a MOT for determining the heat arising from coil defrost. Ares further reported that the SPC 25 committee would be disbanded on final publishing the standard.

Ares reported that Kramer had moved/Ares seconded that the problem of thermal load arising from coil defrost should be separated from the Standard 25 (dry coil) and that ASHRAE should be requested to form at least one new SPC for the purpose of writing a MOT for determining thermal load from defrost.

The SPC 25 committee also moved and voted that ASHRAE be requested to form a second committee directed to writing a MOT for determining the effect of frost load on evaporator performance and that this MOT should be separate from the thermal load MOT.

Gary Price reported that he had attended meetings of Standards Project Committees 33, 25, 90.1, 34 and failed to attend 62.2 and that there was little of substance to report.

RESEARCH:

Dr. Zeitlow announced that Dr. O’Neal had requested and been granted a 6 month unfunded extension on completion of his RP1002. Dr. Zeitlow had to leave for another meeting and Ray Rite continued the research SC presentation:

On TRP 1002, Effect of Fin Staging on Frost Formation, Dr. O‘Neal provided two reports: Experimental Data; and Modeling. The construction under test is directed to residential heat pump outdoor coils with fin densities ranging from 15 to 25 per inch. O’Neal reported encouraging results and expects to have a final report by May.

On TRP 1100, Electrohydrodynamic Effect on Frost Formation, Gary Price reported that there appeared to be a 30% frost reduction at 5000V potential.

Rite reported that the TC 8.4 research plan for 2000 would remain unchanged as follows:

One Research Proposal from the membership was received: Dr. Ahmed Bensafi suggests that "The prediction of coil duties at high latent heat ratios is not reliable and models fail to accurately predict coil performance when the latent heat load is 40% or more (60% SHR?) And suggests research to clarify these anomalies.

The committee disapproved the WS for item 1 above. There was a suggestion of resubmitting via letter ballot. Kramer vigorously opposed for two reasons; he felt that the structure intended to be researched was too close to a non-general commercial construction, and that there had been no disclosure of the relationships. He urged that a full discussion with Dr. Zietlow, the proposer should take place. On motion for a letter ballot, the committee voted 6 in favor, one opposed.

On item 3, Defrost performance of parallel heat exchangers, Rite moved, Price seconded and the committee voted 6 in favor, one abstention that the WS be transmitted to RAC.

On item 4, Geometry Optimization, it was moved that the WS not be sent to RAC at this time to allow time for the author to provide more evidence of industry need or interest and the WS adjusted to reduce the amount of work required. Since there appeared to be too many variables to be economically explored. Dr. Zietlow advised that his Seattle notes indicated that he had not agreed to participate in formulating this workstatement.

HONORS and AWARDS:

Ares announced that anyone having more than ten years seniority in ASHRAE could qualify for upgrade to Fellow Grade membership. He advised that the requirements are posted on the ASHRASE Web site. Those interested should provide the necessary information IN FULL to Ares, Chair of Honors and Awards Sub-Committee and he will forward it to the proper ASHRAE party.

Dr. Sami announced that Kramer had not sent to him Kramer’s bio for the scientific award. Kramer promised to do so.

PROGRAM: Chair Sami advised that TC 8.4 co-sponsored symposium

DA 0011 "Advances in Thermal and Fluid Flow Characteristics of HVAC and Refrigeration Processes" along with TC’s 1.3 and 10.5 and co-sponsored symposium DA 0010 "Properties Update" with TC 3.1 and Forum #12 "Should ASHRAE Pursue Research to Update the Handbbok Chapter on Spiral and Belt-Type Blast Freezing Processes?"

Brian Webb commented that the program does not list TC 8.4 as co-sponsor.

These programs as well as those scheduled or intended for Minneapolis and Atlanta are listed in Annex A.

JOURNAL: Kramer reported that he had had an article published in the November 1999 Journal on the subject of Mineral Oil Circulation in HFC Systems. Brian Webb reported that he had an article that was soon to be published.

WEB SITE: Ray Rite reported that the TC 8.4 area in the ASHRAE site had the Seattle minutes posted along with the Agenda and the Scope of the Committee. Rite noted that all the e-mail addresses of members and attendees that had been provided in the minutes by Recorder Kramer, had been deleted by ASHRAE. Kramer pointed out that most Technical and other societies publish a Roster containing the contact information on each member. Kramer raised the issue of free communication between members for effective exchange of information, ideas and data. He will attempt to determine whether ASHRAE imperils its tax-free status by failing to provide and by hindering access to all members for convenient information exchange.

SCOPE OF COMMITTEE: There was discussion of a proposal to enlarge the scope of the committee to include natural refrigerants such as ammonia and propane as well as complex equipment geometries and immiscible oil-refrigerant mixtures. On a motion by Kramer there was a vote 7 in favor, one abstain.

CHAIRMAN’S REPORT:

Section Head Meeting:

*Journal Liaison requested that TC 8.4 report their interesting activities to the Journal.

PROGRAM:

*Paper and Program Deadline for Future Meetings:

Minneapolis: Too Late

Atlanta: 7 April 2000

Cincinatti: 29 September 2000

Atlantc City: 2 April 2001

Atlanta: 4 August 2000

Cincinatti: 9 February 2001

Atlantc City: 3 August 2001

The Chairman recited requirements for Technical papers and announced that this data was available at ASHRAE’s Website:

TEGA: The Chairman announced that he had been advised that grassroots communication regarding research subjects were insufficient and grassroots communication on this subject should be encouraged.

General Announcements:

*The title of TC 3.6 has been revised to "Corrosion and Water Treatment"

*Standard 60.2; Indoor Air Quality, is now subject to "Continuous Revision" and the Ventilation Requirement has been reduced to 6 FCM per person.

*IIR, International Institute of Refrigeration, has received permission to advise all TC Chairs about the IIR scope. Mark Menser, the IIR liaison, is performing this function. ASHRAE members may wish to join. Dr. Sami handed out a few brochures and advised that the IIR journal is published in both English and French, but mostly English.

*ARTI, The Air-Conditioning and Refrigeration Technical Institute has a research budget of $10M which they plan to spend over a ten year period. Their major interest is in improving energy efficiency and indoor air quality. They have a website at ARTI-21CR.org that lists their committees and their various contacts. (Kramer tried to invoke this site and failed; However It is accessible through the ARI site. (Www.ari.org) Both Mark Menser and Glen Hourihan are ARI employees and their addresses are provided on the site.)

ISO: International Standards Organization: One of their objectives is to examine and standardize refrigerant thermodynamic and transport properties. Dr. Bivens(TC 3.1)is their ASHRAE liaison for this subject and their sub-committee will meet in Minneapolis. The ASHRAE staff member who communicates with the ISO committees is Danny Hallel. However, his name does not appear on the ASHRAE roster of staff found on their site.

RESEARCH: The Chair reported that $500K is available for research relating to work statements summitted this meeting. According to the ASHRAE research plan 5% of this amount is dedicated to refrigeration issues, 5% to food preservation issues and 10% to high-risk issues.

OLD BUSINESS: There was no old business.

NEW BUSINESS: After a short discussion, no new business was presented.

ADJOURN: On motion and unanimous vote the meeting was adjourned at 6:00P

RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:

DANIEL KRAMER

Recorder

Symposium !:

Advances in Thermal and Fluid Flow Characteristics of HVAC and Refrigeration Processes.

Symposium 2:

Heat Exchanger Miniaturization

Seminar 1:

Visualization of Flow and Heat Transfer in Refrigeration and Heat Transfer Processes

Symposium 1:

Advances in Thermal and Fluid Flow Characteristics of HVAC and Refrigeration Processes.

Symposium 2:

Use of Computational Fluid Dynamics in Heat Exchanger Design

Seminar 1:

MEMs for HVAC/Refrigeration Applications

Symposium 1:

Advances in Thermal and Fluid Flow Characteristics of HVAC and Refrigeration Processes.

Seminar 1:

Use of Computational Fluid Dynamics in HVAC and Refrigeration Processes